A Personal Rant: The Biggest Loser Australia: Singles

Featured 78 Comments 28 Votes 1551 Views 07/01/2012 Back to Articles

Why is it that we, the poor Australian public, continue to be subjected to disgusting, torturous television viewing? This year, The Biggest Loser Australia: Singles is due to hit the air, thanks to the "ever-reliable" Network Ten. When will creators and developers of shows of this calibre realise that this is not entertainment? Watching obese people shrink in size at the hands of buffed, motor-mouthed trainers is garbage. I have written previously about the problems that stem from the premise of shows like these and, until the day that I die, I will continue to do so.

Bill Hicks, in many of his live stand-up performances, explored mediocrity and the power of the media in keeping the masses docile, uninventive and muted. Shows like The Biggest Loser Australia: Singles reinforce the message Hicks was sending all those years ago, when he was alive and healthy, actively ranting about the banality of society and how it becomes the subject of control so easily. People like Shannan Ponton, Michelle Bridges, Steve Willis, Tiffany Hall and Hayley Lewis should be summoned and scrutinised for their consistent involvement in - and promotion of - this utter crap. This show is not - and never has been - about exploring the psychology behind obesity and how conquering weight becomes an exercise (pardon the pun) in conquering personal demons. Network Ten are guilty of having no alternatives to reality television. Sure, Network Ten has graced us with the haphazard political drama series The Good Wife and with the long-lasting, trashy, mind-numbingly bad melodrama that is The Bold and the Beautiful, but one cannot help but feel overwhelmed by the network's gamut of reality television shows, ranging from Bondi Rescue, Recruits and Bondi Vet all the way through to MasterChef Australia and The Renovators. This poor viewing epidemic must stop at once.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this article, until the day that I die, I will continue to contest the validity of the crap that is reality television. It is a symptom of what Hicks saw as a form of media control, a form of "entertainment" that prides itself on social mind-numbing. The revival of The Biggest Loser Australia: Singles is doing nobody any favours at all; it is merely destroying the little quality of what is left in contemporary Australian television. Please, in the name of all things holy, make this show STOP!

By Chris Traficante

Link to us http://tv.mmgn.com/Articles/A-Personal-Rant-The-Biggest-Loser-Austra

Article by: Cinemaniac 2647Kudos 07/01/2012

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A Personal Rant: The Biggest Loser Australia: Singles Comments

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

TBL is one of the worst things to ever happen to any form of television. [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm] [Facepalm]

07/01/2012

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

My beef is mainly with the hundreds of singing contests that result in talented Australian bands pushed aside to give these chumps their 15 minutes.

The only thing that will conquer this pandemic is if people would think for themselves. It's the biggest downfall in modern society. People just take everything at face value, and it turns them into robots... and not the cool kind of robot. Until then, these shows will continue to reign supreme. And hey, I feel your pain. This shit ain't gonna stop anytime soon, unfortunately.

Same applies with music. The top 40 is utter trash, but people don't know any better. It's just a damn shame.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

while these kinds of shows aren't my poison, and would rather be watching something else. I don't see why, it is such a crime for these shows to exist, and that for the people who enjoy these shows to somehow be nothing more than drones.

Your article and opinion is crap imo. (but hey don't get offended I'm just getting my point across, same as you) you weren't 'contesting' their validity at all in this article... you were whining. I honestly didn't see a single point that should suggest these shows should be on air, only that you don't like them.

I can agree that certain 'reality' shows (big brother is a big one) shouldn't exist. But...the shows here you've mentioned, really aren't hurting anyone. At the very least, you could've picked more offensive reality shows to whine about.

Not everything we enjoy has to staged...why is it so wrong to enjoy something thats real? Instead of being caught up in fantasy...watch something real and learn something new.

half the shows you've mentioned aren't guilty of what you're accusing them off. bondi rescue and recruits aren't something I'd watch regularly myself, but aside from being reality, what is wrong with them? The fact they can provide insight in to the lives of others, and others occupations? Recruits especially, by showing how these professions really are, in the real world might inspire people to become these things.

i really dont get your view at all. the shows you've used as examples, really aren't as mindnumbing as you say. Where's australian idol? wheres big brother? where's x factor and australias got talent? where's so you think you can dance?

even biggest loser is helping people change their lives. who gives a **** that you dont like it, some people enjoy watching REAL people, change REAL lives.
"This show is not - and never has been - about exploring the psychology behind obesity and how conquering weight becomes an exercise (pardon the pun) in conquering personal demons." What is it about then? this is nothing more than you forcing your own idealogy on to everything.

Ftr, the trainers are 'motor-mouthed' only when they need to be. You think these people are going to hit the gym by themselves? you think they're going to push past their limits without someone their forcing them? have you even watched the show? When they break down, the trainers dont start running their mouths, they listen because they're not the monsters you claim they are.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 16,709

Huddo

i liked the teams of two they did two years ago and then the family one last year. this years one does look like crap. theres only so many blubbering fatties i can handle.

network tens best reality show is keeping up with the joneses. its such a different lifestyle all set with a fascinating landscape of northern australia.

bondi rescue and paramedics are decent as they are real and not scripted so they are true reality shows and bondi rescue sells particularly well overseas. as would joneses i would guess

08/01/2012

Sydney, NSW

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

I just jumped on the scales and I weigh 100kg.

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

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Marge

channel 7 is pretty bad too. Why do people find border security entertaining?

In relation to bad television, the audience inadvertently ask for it. People complain about the amount of violence in the media, yet crime shows are one of the most popular forms of television. Likewise it's the really bad reality shows that get the most views (ala Big Brother). All contributes to the fact that society in general is a hypocritical mass of ignorance

08/01/2012

Your Mother's Closet

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Cinemaniac

Scoot said: while these kinds of shows aren't my poison, and would rather be watching something else. I don't see why, it is such a crime for these shows to exist, and that for the people who enjoy these shows to somehow be nothing more than drones.
Your article and opinion is crap imo. (but hey don't get offended I'm just getting my point across, same as you) you weren't 'contesting' their validity at all in this article... you were whining. I honestly didn't see a single point that should suggest these shows should be on air, only that you don't like them.
I can agree that certain 'reality' shows (big brother is a big one) shouldn't exist. But...the shows here you've mentioned, really aren't hurting anyone. At the very least, you could've picked more offensive reality shows to whine about.
Not everything we enjoy has to staged...why is it so wrong to enjoy something thats real? Instead of being caught up in fantasy...watch something real and learn something new.
half the shows you've mentioned aren't guilty of what you're accusing them off. bondi rescue and recruits aren't something I'd watch regularly myself, but aside from being reality, what is wrong with them? The fact they can provide insight in to the lives of others, and others occupations? Recruits especially, by showing how these professions really are, in the real world might inspire people to become these things.
i really dont get your view at all. the shows you've used as examples, really aren't as mindnumbing as you say. Where's australian idol? wheres big brother? where's x factor and australias got talent? where's so you think you can dance?
even biggest loser is helping people change their lives. who gives a **** that you dont like it, some people enjoy watching REAL people, change REAL lives.
"This show is not - and never has been - about exploring the psychology behind obesity and how conquering weight becomes an exercise (pardon the pun) in conquering personal demons." What is it about then? this is nothing more than you forcing your own idealogy on to everything.

Well, it is an opinion article, hence...my opinion and ideology. [MOG] Shows of this calibre, in short, are cheap to make and are poor in quality. It's not a "crime" that shows of this kind are on, it's just a disgrace and an insult to anything remotely entertaining, creative and/or informative, that's all. The show relies upon hammy melodrama (i.e., music accompanying drama onscreen) as a way of heightening and screwing with audience emotion. Juxtaposing cut/ripped/buffed trainers and obese/shabbily-dressed contestants is just as ludicrous. The mere comparison is hilarious: "if you train hard, you'll end up like Shannan or Michelle".

Your use of the term "real" also needs to be considered more closely here. It is this line between fiction and reality that reality TV blurs and makes complete enjoyment impossible. The personalities and the weight loss are real, but the format of the show is staged. What is the show's trajectory? What is the motive behind 'staging reality'?

My point is this: the series sucks because it promotes a brainless approach to self-management and it relies upon hammy melodrama and themes of discipline and punishment to engage viewers. It's utter crap.

Conceptually, 'Big Brother' is one of the better reality shows. It explores what happens when folk are imprisoned together over a period of time. There's something intellectually engaging about the prison structure and overseeing presence in the house (refer to Foucault, the Panopticon, etc). The personalities that are sampled in the show, however, are boring:

08/01/2012

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

well, i realise it's an opinion piece but when you say things like 'you will continue to contest [their] validity' the intent of your article becomes unclear, since you didn't realy contest it, just displayed your own personal lack of appreciation. at least thats how i saw it.

i dont think they really promise them "if you train hard, you'll end up like Shannan or Michelle". in fact, anything you say on that is hard to really justify properly. It would be inappropriate for their trainers to fat and unqualified. they're real trainers helping real people, even if the circumstances of the show are staged.

which leads me in to my next point. In this regard, biggest loser and big brother are the same. real people in a staged situation. yet somehow to you, big brother is better? It doesn't really prove anything, and like you said about biggest loser, i don't think exploring the psychology of it all was the original intention.

It just seems like you're looking at two similar things but holding two completely differing opinions because of what you get out the show. the problem i have with that, even though it's an opinion piece, is that there's this facade of objectivity in all this. like there's a right and wrong answer, not what you think and what others thing.

you're good at getting your opinion across though (kudos to your writing skills, i wish i had them because it would make explaining myself much easier) in the same way though, despite your ability to get across what you have to say, i think here you were plain wrong.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Scoot said: well, i realise it's an opinion piece but when you say things like 'you will continue to contest [their] validity' the intent of your article becomes unclear, since you didn't realy contest it, just displayed your own personal lack of appreciation. at least thats how i saw it.
i dont think they really promise them "if you train hard, you'll end up like Shannan or Michelle". in fact, anything you say on that is hard to really justify properly. It would be inappropriate for their trainers to fat and unqualified. they're real trainers helping real people, even if the circumstances of the show are staged.
you're good at getting your opinion across though (kudos to your writing skills, i wish i had them because it would make explaining myself much easier) in the same way though, despite your ability to get across what you have to say, i think here you were plain wrong.

Yeah, I said that I will continue to contest, meaning that it will be a topic/show I will continue to disagree with. I wrote an article a little while ago about TBL as well (it follows on).

Sure, it doesn't explicitly promise that contestants will look like trainers on the show and I'm not saying that trainers have to be out of shape. I do, however, believe that the show angles for the idea that "out of shape contestants" should aspire to look like the "nicely shaped trainers". The posing shots and comparisons of contestants and trainers at the commencement of each episode indicates this.

Nope, I don't think BB is better, or that it is particularly good. I just said that conceptually it is (i.e., the premise/context of the show is better). Sure, BB and TBL are forms of reality TV - and both are average in quality - but BB explores an idea that Orwell fleshed out in 'Nineteen Eighty Four' and a concept that has fascinated academics for many years. Conversely, getting huge people to lose insanely large amounts of weight at the hands and shouting instructions of trainers doesn't have that same quality.

Cheers for the compliment. You're entitled to think I'm wrong. :D

08/01/2012

Kudos: 4,467

Aeschylus

They should have TBL then have a show about all previous contestants who now weight more then they ever did because the mental and enviromental issues haven't been addressed and there weak will has drawn them back into eating 28 big macs a day

08/01/2012

caboolture qld

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Scoot said:
even biggest loser is helping people change their lives. who gives a **** that you dont like it, some people enjoy watching REAL people, change REAL lives.

Do you honestly think that what you see on the screen is a clear reflection of reality? This is exactly what he's saying - "the power of the media in keeping the masses docile, uninventive and muted." People watch it, thinking it's some sort of dreamworld, where people overcome the odds and fulfill their dreams. It's bullshit. It just doesn't happen.

And seriously, people must have that low self-esteem to go on a show called "The Biggest Loser" (which could not be possibly any more suggestive), a show that's designed to give the public, not the contestants, what they want - a fast, and aesthetic transformation. That's not helping anyone.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Pilkingbod said:

Scoot said:
even biggest loser is helping people change their lives. who gives a **** that you dont like it, some people enjoy watching REAL people, change REAL lives.

Do you honestly think that what you see on the screen is a clear reflection of reality? This is exactly what he's saying - "the power of the media in keeping the masses docile, uninventive and muted." People watch it, thinking it's some sort of dreamworld, where people overcome the odds and fulfill their dreams. It's bullshit. It just doesn't happen.
And seriously, people must have that low self-esteem to go on a show called "The Biggest Loser" (which could not be possibly any more suggestive), a show that's designed to give the public, not the contestants, what they want - a fast, and aesthetic transformation. That's not helping anyone.

Agree to all of the above. [MOG]

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

I agree with scoot. This article is heavy on the whining, and light on the reasoning. You devote just two sentences to explaining 'why' you think reality TV is such trash. And even then you're just referencing someone else. Sure it's an opinion piece, and you're allowed to hold that opinion, but for the sake of readers, please include more substance.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said: I agree with scoot. This article is heavy on the whining, and light on the reasoning. You devote just two sentences to explaining 'why' you think reality TV is such trash. And even then you're just referencing someone else. Sure it's an opinion piece, and you're allowed to hold that opinion, but for the sake of readers, please include more substance.

As I have stated already, TBL sucks because (1) it uses an overly active/emotive score to hook viewers into caring about characters, (2) it promotes confused and stupid ideas about self-maintenance, (3) watching people lose weight is borderline sadistic and (4) reality TV is neither completely realistic nor fully fictional, making reception of its subject matter difficult. These are the reasons for my whining. ;)

08/01/2012

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Makra

Is there a reason you didn't include that in your article in the first place? Not everyone reads the comments.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

^ +1
I don't read every comment all the time.

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

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Cinemaniac

Makra said: Is there a reason you didn't include that in your article in the first place? Not everyone reads the comments.

Re-read the article - the points/ideas are there in different words. I've summarised these points for you so you understand. [MOG] The article also addresses content issues with Network Ten - let's focus on this as well.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Cinemaniac said:
Makra said: Is there a reason you didn't include that in your article in the first place? Not everyone reads the comments.

Re-read the article - the points are in there. I've summarised the points for you so you understand.

Oh puh-lease. Now your patronising me? [Facepalm]

I invite you to quote in comparison the points in your article and the points you made above, to show me precisely where these points are hidden.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said:

Cinemaniac said:

Makra said: Is there a reason you didn't include that in your article in the first place? Not everyone reads the comments.

Re-read the article - the points are in there. I've summarised the points for you so you understand.

Oh puh-lease. Now your patronising me?
I invite you to quote in comparison the points in your article and the points you made above, to show me precisely where these points are hidden.

How is that patronising? I've broken down the points/premise of the article for you. Might have misinterpreted the wording - ridicule wasn't intended, dude.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

How is that patronising?

By implying that I can't understand the article as it is, therefore you have to break it down for me? I'm sorry dude, but a high school student could write a more thought provoking, intellectual article than that - it doesn't need any breaking down.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Regarding subtle points in the article and their relation to post points:

(1) It uses an overly active/emotive score to hook viewers into caring about characters -------> “This show is not - and never has been - about exploring the psychology behind obesity and how conquering weight becomes an exercise (pardon the pun) in conquering personal demons. Network Ten are guilty of having no alternatives to reality television”

(2) It promotes confused and stupid ideas about self-maintenance --------> “Watching obese people shrink in size at the hands of buffed, motor-mouthed trainers is garbage”

(3) Watching people lose weight is borderline sadistic -----------> “until the day that I die, I will continue to contest the validity of the crap that is reality television”

(4) Reality TV is neither completely realistic nor fully fictional, making reception of its subject matter difficult -----------> “a form of "entertainment" that prides itself on social mind-numbing” and “keeping the masses docile, uninventive and muted” is its aim

08/01/2012

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said: How is that patronising?
By implying that I can't understand the article as it is, therefore you have to break it down for me? I'm sorry dude, but a high school student could write a more thought provoking, intellectual article than that - it doesn't need any breaking down.

Mate, if you're offended, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it wasn't the intention. You wanted clarity, you've got it.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Cinemaniac said: Regarding subtle points in the article and their relation to post points:
(1) It uses an overly active/emotive score to hook viewers into caring about characters -------> “This show is not - and never has been - about exploring the psychology behind obesity and how conquering weight becomes an exercise (pardon the pun) in conquering personal demons. Network Ten are guilty of having no alternatives to reality television”
(2) It promotes confused and stupid ideas about self-maintenance --------> “Watching obese people shrink in size at the hands of buffed, motor-mouthed trainers is garbage”
(3) Watching people lose weight is borderline sadistic -----------> “until the day that I die, I will continue to contest the validity of the crap that is reality television”
(4) Reality TV is neither completely realistic nor fully fictional, making reception of its subject matter difficult -----------> “a form of "entertainment" that prides itself on social mind-numbing” and “keeping the masses docile, uninventive and muted” is its aim

There's a difference between 'reading between the lines', and reading points that just aren't there. Your article is guilty of requiring the latter.

No. (1): Two totally different points there. One is a 'positive' statement, referring to music and it's effects on the viewers, the other is a negative statement referring to themes/issues the show doesn't explore. Can you please explain how we readers are meant to pull that first point out of the second? The only way I see that happening is with mind-reading powers.
The rest of the points are as contrastive and ambiguously connected to each other as (1) so I won't bother going into them.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

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Cinemaniac

Whaaaaaah? An emotive, melodic score is frequently used in TBL as a way of showing the audience the broken psychology of its overweight contestants. It's a well-known and established technique producers of the show use to hook viewers in and to develop characterisation. Dude, it's called 'melodrama' - consider it here.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Oh, look at that! You're learning to communicate an argument!

Now, use that skill in your article writing [MOG]

I think you just don't realise how little you are communicating in your article. It's all there in your head, but somehow it comes out in text in an extremely condensed and cut-down form. I'm often guilty of the same when writing papers - I see the links, the implications and suggestions etc, but to someone who can't see the stuff going on in my mind, the text is very limited and disjointed.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said: Oh, look at that! You're learning to communicate an argument!
Now, use that skill in your article writing
I think you just don't realise how little you are communicating in your article. It's all there in your head, but somehow it comes out in text in an extremely condensed and cut-down form. I'm often guilty of the same when writing papers - I see the links, the implications and suggestions etc, but to someone who can't see the stuff going on in my mind, the text is very limited.

No, it's a response to an incorrect assumption you made. My article explores these themes in a 3-400 word text frame, and, if you took note when reading the article, it also explores Network Ten's lack of alternatives to reality TV, which you did not address in any way, shape or form at all.

You see, you resort to being patronising and making statements like 'use the skill in your writing' and I couldn't care even if I tried, yet you unleash a gamut of grievances at the slight sign of possibly being ridiculed. Why is that? [MOG]

I also find it amusing how you make hollow statements like 'your argument isn't there' and 'music and themes don't mix', but, ultimately, you've agreed with my sentiment. So, basically, we've gone around in circles for no real reason. Tell me, where to from here, man? I'm unsure... :S

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Hey, I'm only following in your patronising footsteps of summarising the article because I apparently couldn't understand it, and telling me to read up on melodrama because I apparently know nothing about it. (Yes, I saw your ninja edit, and yes you say you didn't mean to patronise but quite frankly, it's blatant patronising IMO).

It seems the issue here is the 3-400 word text frame. Was that imposed by yourself or MMGN? Because it is quite ridiculous for any article to be worth anything with so few words written.

Now apparently I haven't been quite clear enough. My only issue here is that you wrote an extremely limited article with practically no argument to back up your opinion. I'm not attacking the topic you have chosen, or the sub-issues you have 'mentioned' (mentioned being the key word, because they were not explored). So I have no idea why you would expect me to address your mention of Ten's lack of alternatives. [WTF] That also means that whether or not I ultimately agree with your sentiment is totally irrelevant. In fact I would say I have not given the slightest hint as to whether or not I agree with you. Because as I said, my issue is with the 'article' (I hesitate to call it that, because it's more like a footnote) being an uninteresting whine with none of the substance that you have since included in the comments.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said: Hey, I'm only following in your patronising footsteps of summarising the article because I apparently couldn't understand it, and telling me to read up on melodrama because I apparently know nothing about it. (Yes, I saw your ninja edit, and yes you say you didn't mean to patronise but quite frankly, it's blatant patronising IMO).
It seems the issue here is the 3-400 word text frame. Was that imposed by yourself or MMGN? Because it is quite ridiculous for any article to be worth anything with so few words written.
Now apparently I haven't been quite clear enough. My only issue here is that you wrote an extremely limited article with practically no argument to back up your opinion. I'm not attacking the topic you have chosen, or the sub-issues you have 'mentioned' (mentioned being the key word, because they were not explored). So I have no idea why you would expect me to address your mention of Ten's lack of alternatives. That also means that whether or not I ultimately agree with your sentiment is totally irrelevant. In fact I would say I have not given the slightest hint as to whether or not I agree with you. Because as I said, my issue is with the 'article' (I hesitate to call it that, because it's more like a footnote) being an uninteresting whine with none of the substance that you have since included in the comments.
So, where to from here? Write something worth reading, you're being paid for it right?

Well, you have dedicated much of the last two hours to debating my views on the article, so you must have found it worth reading, and for that, I am truly thankful, Makra. :) The 'ninja' edits (nice wording there) are symptomatic of being an editor and writer. You see, if I was to be smug and patronising, I'd criticise your inability to distinguish between words like 'your' and 'you're' earlier in the thread, but I refuse - and don't wish - to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I've listed the points of the article, in a repetitive fashion, yet you claim they don't exist. If your argument is that you want the arguments fleshed out, that's one thing, but to say they are non-existent does not make an inch of sense. You disagree with my arguments, but to then follow and say they don't appear is...just...non-sensical. :S

Oh, another thing: the whole 'footnote' comment is boring. I established you weren't being ridiculed early on, yet you persist with trying to sound intelligent when, in reality, you just sound smug and argumentative for the sake of being smug and argumentative. :S You asked for clarity - there you go.

Anyway, what's your opinion on Network Ten's content? I'm curious to hear views on this...

08/01/2012

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Another thing: articles vary in length. Some are blurb sized and others span across pages. Just noticed that comment now. [MOG]

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

You are totally missing the point:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I've listed the points of the article, in repetitive fashion, yet you claim they don't exist.

Yes, you have listed some of your points of argument several times, and YES, those arguments exist. I have never disputed that. What I have disputed is what arguments are included in the article, because practically all of your points have been in the comments section. And my initial question was, is there a reason you didn't include those in the article? You contested that there were points in the article and I went about showing that they aren't. Hence, my question stands.

If your argument is that you want the arguments fleshed out, that's one thing, but to say they are non-existent does not make an inch of sense. You disagree with my arguments, but to then folow and say they don't appear is...just...non-sensical.

I did not, in any comment, disagree with your arguments. Please show me where you think I disagree with your arguments.

Because, to repeat myself. I am not disagreeing with your arguments. I am disagreeing with an article being written with little reasoning and substance.

You see, if I was to be smug and patronising, I'd criticse your inability to distinguish between words like 'your' and 'you're' earlier in the thread, but I refuse - and don't wish - to.

Oh nice, taking the moral high ground eh? I'm sorry but just the mentioning of this is being smug and patronising. In an implied way of course. Anyhow, if you had looked closer, you would notice that I used the correct "you're" a couple of times prior to using it incorrectly. Therefore, any allegation of being inable to distinguish the difference between the two words would be clearly false. Nice try though :)

Cinemaniac said: Another thing: articles vary in length. Some are blurb sized and others span across pages. Just noticed that comment now.

Well to a large degree the topic should dictate the length of the article. An article of this kind, should, IMO be much longer to make it worth reading.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Dude, this whole 'debate' has run its course. Don't stress - we'll call it truce here. You've got your opinions on the article and I have views on your views of the article - it's all good. [MOG]

I agree that the topic is substantial and worthy of debate (that's why reality TV studies are available at tertiary level), but this debate is becoming personal as opposed to constructive.

Now, to Network Ten: what's your opinion on its current content and show broadcasting?

08/01/2012

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

Most of the comments here = tl;dr

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

My opinion is, I don't watch TV anymore so I don't care about Ten or any other channel =D

SONY said: Most of the comments here = tl;dr

Someone read them. I wanna know who my secret admirer is [Derp]

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

SBS is cool.

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

i read them just then but didn't like them.

i wouldn't like them either. i think both sides were kind missing the point and I think you makra, were as guilty as what you (and myself as well) were accusing cinemaniac on. In that you were writing a lot without really saying anything. Look at how much you wrote considering that one point you were trying to get across during most of it.

cinemaniac, i'd be interested in reading a much larger article on this issue, because i do think makra got a little what i was saying. you knew what you wanted to say but just couldn't translate it to paper with enough reasoning behind your opinion. and without reason, complaints seem like whining and im sure it wasn't your intention.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said: My opinion is, I don't watch TV anymore so I don't care about Ten or any other channel

SONY said: Most of the comments here = tl;dr

Someone read them. I wanna know who my secret admirer is

Brilliant. Thanks.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Yeah, I mean the comments section exists to basically exptrapolate the points made in the article in question.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Cinemaniac said:
Brilliant. Thanks.

No probs, after all I'm not the one being paid right? :D

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 2,647

Cinemaniac

Makra said:

Cinemaniac said:
Brilliant. Thanks.

No probs, after all I'm not the one being paid right?

You're the best, Makra. You really are. [MOG]

08/01/2012

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Aww shucks, you're making me wet *_*

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

Pilkingbod said: Yeah, I mean the comments section exists to basically exptrapolate the points made in the article in question.

i guess when i hand in an english paper I'll just leave half of it out

so when i get a shitty mark and the teacher asks about it, i can explain it all.

doesnt really work that way

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Scoot said:
i guess when i hand in an english paper I'll just leave half of it out
so when i get a shitty mark and the teacher asks about it, i can explain it all.
doesnt really work that way

Guess not.

Oh yeah. This isn't 10th grade education. [Derp]

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

Pilkingbod said:
Scoot said:
i guess when i hand in an english paper I'll just leave half of it out
so when i get a shitty mark and the teacher asks about it, i can explain it all.
doesnt really work that way

Guess not.
Oh yeah. This isn't 10th grade education.

unnecessary.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 145,147

M@ndyz

sorry I didn't read all the comments but I'm a fan of reality shows but mostly shows such as project runaway and Americas next top model.. at least at the end of these types of shows most of the contestants get a career or better job outta them.. where's on the biggest loser it's a bunch of lazy obese people who can't stop eating.. my daughter liked watching It but that was only because she liked to laugh at them while they did those challengers.

08/01/2012

I'm the person in front. (human centipede)

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

M@ndyz said: on the biggest loser it's a bunch of lazy obese people who can't stop eating.. my daughter liked watching It but that was only because she liked to laugh at them while they did those challengers.

i can't even begin to figure out how to put to words my disgust with this =/

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 145,147

M@ndyz

Scoot said:
M@ndyz said: on the biggest loser it's a bunch of lazy obese people who can't stop eating.. my daughter liked watching It but that was only because she liked to laugh at them while they did those challengers.

i can't even begin to figure out how to put to words my disgust with this =/

sorry man there's nothing wrong with being a little overweight.. even I'm a little overweight but come on obese is different.. way different.. I know people who are and I still see them eat maccas etc and yes the ones I do know do say they are lazy and can't be bothered., sorry to offend :(

and I didn't like her laughing at them but it's not M so I let her watch it..

08/01/2012

I'm the person in front. (human centipede)

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

im not obese either, but still.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 145,147

M@ndyz

I pretty much think it shouldn't be on tv no more.. even friends I know watch it for a "laugh" it's not teaching people anything.. they should just help people without them being on a tv show.. grab a bunch of "obese' people and give them a trainer and gym membership etc.. instead of parading them on tv

08/01/2012

I'm the person in front. (human centipede)

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

i can agree to that, i think the biggest issue is motivation though

i think being unfair to fat people these days is just so backwards though.

farking get over it already.

some do have reasons to being fat though

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 145,147

M@ndyz

yes there is medical reasons for some..

08/01/2012

I'm the person in front. (human centipede)

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Scoot said:
some do have reasons to being fat though

Rarely.

People eat too much, and excercise too little.

Like I said above, they're volunteering themselves to go on a show called The Biggest Loser. Now, as if the T.V executives weren't aware of this double entendre.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

Pilkingbod said:
Scoot said:
some do have reasons to being fat though

Rarely.
People eat too much, and excercise too little.
Like I said above, they're volunteering themselves to go on a show called The Biggest Loser. Now, as if the T.V executives weren't aware of this double entendre.

ftr i wasn't explicitly stating medical issues. emotional barriers do exist. and its unfair to ridicule people if you dont know why. its unfair to ridicule them at all because even if its 'because they're lazy' its their choice.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 3,447

kiryuu

Scoot said: i can agree to that, i think the biggest issue is motivation though
i think being unfair to fat people these days is just so backwards though.
farking get over it already.
some do have reasons to being fat though

It goes both ways. I eat healthy, exercise and weight 60kg. I've had "bigger" people say I'm too skinny, or I'm an idiot because I won't eat certain foods, yet I've never commented on their weight. :(

08/01/2012

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

kiryuu said:
Scoot said: i can agree to that, i think the biggest issue is motivation though
i think being unfair to fat people these days is just so backwards though.
farking get over it already.
some do have reasons to being fat though

It goes both ways. I eat healthy, exercise and weight 60kg. I've had "bigger" people say I'm too skinny, or I'm an idiot because I won't eat certain foods, yet I've never commented on their weight.

i didnt say it didnt lol

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 145,147

M@ndyz

kiryuu said:
Scoot said: i can agree to that, i think the biggest issue is motivation though
i think being unfair to fat people these days is just so backwards though.
farking get over it already.
some do have reasons to being fat though

It goes both ways. I eat healthy, exercise and weight 60kg. I've had "bigger" people say I'm too skinny, or I'm an idiot because I won't eat certain foods, yet I've never commented on their weight.

that's so true.. everyone says my sister needs to eat more but she eats heaps.. before preggies she was a size 6.. I think around 50kgs.. people say she's anorexic but she's not.

08/01/2012

I'm the person in front. (human centipede)

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Scoot said:
ftr i wasn't explicitly stating medical issues. emotional barriers do exist. and its unfair to ridicule people if you dont know why. its unfair to ridicule them at all because even if its 'because they're lazy' its their choice.

Most of the time, it is a lifestyle choice, though. That's what I'm saying.

Strictly speaking, no, it's not fair to assume. But this is what I'm sure of: TBL exists not for the sake of the 12 contestants, but for the sake of the millions of viewers to either sympathize, or more accurately, be entertained. These people obviously have nothing wrong with them, other than being addicted to fatty foods. Why on Earth would they volunteer to be on a television show, free to be ridiculed from millions of people, when they're not in a emotionally stable state of mind. That would be unethical.

So yes, it exists, therefore the public has a right to view it as they wish. Seems to me that your biggest beef should be with the show itself, and not the viewers.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

Free weight loss program = Awesome

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

Kudos: 71,094

Tia

I know someone who had been overweight/obese all her childhood/teenage years and into adulthood, and had tried many, many diets over many years and had failed every time to lose and keep off the weight.

However watching this show and being able to see "herself" in one of the contestants was enough to get her motivated, she went from a size 26 to a 14, over about a year, she's kept the weight off for 3 years so far.

Personally I think that if the people on that show are willing to put themselves through all the crap they do, in full public view, they must have gotten to a pretty low place in their life, and if this show actually helps them (and perhaps some of the viewers) to get up from that place, then that's gotta be a good thing.

08/01/2012

ίη☆ 3DS FC - 1676-3999-6880

Kudos: 451

shaakka

If in the end it makes the contestants happier and healthier, then I'm all for it :) Better than something like Big Brother imo :P

08/01/2012

Kudos: 47,307

SONY

BB = Complete waste of time, imo.

08/01/2012

MMGN SONY PlayStation Vita club legends: Vinzor - davidhes - abuu - SONY - LMA0 - Flame_PSP - mong

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Tia said:
Personally I think that if the people on that show are willing to put themselves through all the crap they do, in full public view, they must have gotten to a pretty low place in their life, and if this show actually helps them (and perhaps some of the viewers) to get up from that place, then that's gotta be a good thing.

I agree. But what we see on the T.V isn't necessarily the same as reality, and that's the problem. If it motivates viewers, that's fine, but at what price? Exploiting a bunch of people who are happy to parade their unhealthy physique in front of millions? There are plenty of real weight loss stories that are much more motivating, because they are 100% genuine and bonafide. The problem with that it, these real stories aren't in television form on prime time.

I do disagree, however, that the contestants must be in a low place in their life that they appear on a reality television concept as a last resort. If they had any decent friends or family members, they would advise him/her strongly against it.
Like I said, I wouldn't be signing up to be potentially ridiculed, and let's be honest, they are, if I were emotionally unstable.

SONY said: BB = Complete waste of time, imo.

well, we can agree with that.

That certainly does nobody any good.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 29,669

Scoot

they go on it for the money most of the time

i never said i had a problem with the viewers though, just that sometimes their reasoning behind why it should/shouldn't exist can be really black and white.

if i had to pick a side though, I'd go with cinemaniac and the exploitation, but I just wanted to promote a little more in depth discussion on the matter. Even if that meant temporarily backing reality tv to hear both sides more.

08/01/2012

Brawl: Scott - 1807-5138-3949

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

A girl I knew applied to TBL, she got in, however was eliminated in the early group stage. She had friends and family, wasn't unstable, and didn't have below average self esteem.

Several months later she was perfectly fit and of healthy weight.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Makra said:
Several months later she was perfectly fit and of healthy weight.
Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

Okay. Turns out she didn't need some show to help her lose weight, obviously, which is a good thing.

08/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 18,649

Makra

Possibly. I can think of various inferences though. Perhaps TBL provides post elimination support. Perhaps being on the show was a trigger to give her the determination to get fit etc.

Primarily, though, I think it suggests that the show is not evil after all.

08/01/2012

~ kiri kiri kiri kiri ~

Kudos: 451

shaakka

Makra said: A girl I knew applied to TBL, she got in, however was eliminated in the early group stage. She had friends and family, wasn't unstable, and didn't have below average self esteem.
Several months later she was perfectly fit and of healthy weight.
Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

I think the eliminated contestants go into some prize draw whereby the person that loses the most weight wins some money?

edit: oh actually that might just be for the elimanted contestants from the main group.

08/01/2012

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Makra said:
Primarily, though, I think it suggests that the show is not evil after all.

I don't think you've demonstrated anything more than the show being unnecessary to the contribution of weight loss for some individuals.

You do know her better than I do, obviously, but why would being on TBL T.V show be a motivating factor? I mean, applying for a role on the show obviously shows determination, so I doubt being on the show would make any difference.

I'm sorry, but if it takes a television concept to spark people's motivation into shedding some kilos, then I just put that purely down to laziness.

BUMP: Well, shut my mouth. Look what The Age wrote today: www.theage.com.au/...

Talk about spooky

09/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 243,206

Guyver

I'll be honest say I didn't mind a few of the reality TV shows when they first came out but like all things that make money they have been done to death, to the point where I can not stand them as well. Not a real issue for me because I barely have my TV tuned in properly, The Internet, Videogames and my collection of movies keeps me more than entertained.

10/01/2012

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Kudos: 2,260

Atomic10

Simple, don't like it don't watch it. And why is it when i read this article i could hear a 'An emotive, melodic score'??

11/01/2012

Melbourne,Victoria

Kudos: 59,297

XxmadmanxX

TV is shit all together plain and simple

11/01/2012

Lawl Guyver Ajajajaja

Kudos: 24,081

IAMColonel

That link says it all. Used, manipulated, and left out to dry. These TV shows particularly, are guilty.

@Scoot I cannot believe you are sticking up for this crap? Really? I could understand if you were one of the gullibles which is raked in by the fluffy emotional turmoil and inspiring journey - but you are not, there is no excuse for you. You should know better.

First and foremost - "Not everything we enjoy has to staged...why is it so wrong to enjoy something thats real?" - this is absolute horseshit. SHOWS LIKE THIS ARE NOT REAL. "REALITY" shows are not REAL. They are every bit staged. Ever watched Jersey Shore? Staged, obviously, but only as obviously as Big Brother and only as obviously as Biggest Loser.

Just because nobody on the show says it is easy, doesn't mean they are not taking the audience for a ride.

I would also defend Recruits, Bondi Vet, etc, as they are more sincere... minus the insane excessive amount of them at the moment.

I don't need to delve into the Biggest Losers flaws, its tendency to use child-capable tactics to manipulate the masses of drones who lounge in front of the couch every night, dreaming of a time in the distant future where they may, also, become better looking. You can just look at that link that Pilk post... sums it up perfectly, you clearly have no understanding of what you're watching, it's sad really. Maybe you should turn on some Media Watch, because I heard that ACA and Today Tonight are also supposed to be real?

11/01/2012

Melbourne

Kudos: 37,490

Dusty Lids

As bad as it is at least its not a piece of shit like big brother or australian idol.

At least people save their lives by getting fit and modovate overweight people to lose weight.

12/01/2012

Melbourne

Kudos: 4,755

DPkrass

over all i beleive it has a positive message and no one forces anyone to watch it. I dont personayl watch it or most other reality shows for that matter so in that token the fact that this show exists and is aired ...it doesnt bother me.

12/01/2012

Brunswick, Melbourne

Kudos: 10,062

Daseti

I think the comments on this article contain more drama than the show will ever have. [WTF]

13/01/2012

I have one speed, one gear, GO!

Kudos: 71,734

renagadez

yeaaaah i hate those fat people in scooters

22/01/2012

Sydney, New South Wales

Kudos: 70,961

Pilkingbod

Daseti said: I think the comments on this article contain more drama than the show will ever have.

I'm a drama queen.

hmph

22/01/2012

Melting pot of friendship

Kudos: 17,376

Leasha

I have NO problem watching The Biggest Loser while I'm eating my KFC. In fact I feel it's the best time to watch.

Personally these shows, not unlike a lot of "Reality" shows are just to broadcast "Freak shows", morbidly fat people (Biggest loser), mentally unstable people (The Bachelor) liars, cheats, manipulators (Survivor) and it goes on and on. Human nature in most people dares them watch for what ever reason. Usually to make themselves feel better by seeing someone else being dragged down, or perhaps to make them feel that they do have a chance at life just like these people that work out 8 hrs a day with personal trainers for weeks on end and have their diets all planned out for them...

At any rate, people will always watch this stuff out of curiosity and god knows what else they can get from it that is self serving.

Personally I prefer Maury Povich "He's not the baby Daddy Laqueesha"

Cops, any one getting tasered just rocks my world!

And clearly anything else that's super trashy. What do I get out of it you ask? Nothing, my brain literally gets to do NOTHING while I watch. I'm also partial to what I like to call "OW my Balls" which is clearly that WipeOut show, but I like to make reference to idiocracy.

Now go away I'm bating.

22/01/2012

To Infinity and beyond